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Gee bag, slut, whore! Just some of the words used by the "A gays" and the "regular" gays to respond to both of the Brenda Power articles in the Sunday Times. Well guys and gals I think we shot ourselves in the foot with those long thought out articulate responses!
Now let me set the record straight. I think Panti is a great drag artist and entertainer and I think that Brenda Power makes some valid points in her column.
I do disagree with Brenda's opinions regarding marriage, children, and the role of gay pride; I do recognise she has made a few sideways swipes at the LGBT community, however not once did she call us gee bags, sluts or whores, or some of the more regular insults we're used to, faggots, perverts, fudge-packers, dyke's, chicks with dicks; you get the picture.
The gay community need to get an important message across to the rest of society, especially to those that are complacent and / or conservative regarding their views on gay equality and marriage. Do we really want a man dressed as a woman being the public figure for this extremely important argument? I for one don't! I want a representative that is palatable to those who may question my relationship, who may have doubts that gay people can be in love, make a commitment and have a contributing role to play in society. What I certainly don't want people to be thinking is, "Is that a fella or a woman?", "Look at the state of yer man wearing a dress" or "oh I wonder where she got that little number from?".
I want a spokesperson who can relate to the mainstream. I want a spokesperson who can get the message across without the fact that they are wearing a dress or, if they they should be addressed as "he" or "she", distracting from the important and crucial points that need to be made. We need to build relationships with our neighbours, our detesters and our elected representatives not focus their minds on something else or alienate them further.
So the challenge here is for the LGBT community to get together and choose one or two figures who will represent our views, concerns and aspirations to the public, someone who will get the message across without any distractions? Who will unite us in our struggle for equality and who has the capability to identify with those who disagree with us.
Both Brenda and the LGBT community might learn some lessons from Harvey Milk "It takes no compromising to give people their rights. It takes no money to respect the individual."
We are not asking our fellow citizens to compromise but to give us absolute equality with them and when asking for this equality we need to respect the opinions of each individual within our democracy who may disagree with us. Responding to a newspaper column by calling someone a gee bag, slut or a whore promotes a lack of respect and understanding, something the gay community has been struggling for, for years.
*****
Definition
"A Gay" members of the gay community who see themselves at the top of the pecking order within their community and of which mere regular gays should aspire to become a member off. (Definition given to me by an "A gay")
18 comments:
Hi Visitors,
I thought I'd share with you some of the comments / responses on the facebook page regarding this subject to this particular article.
From Peter Murphy
Michael Conlon has some fair points. I do however feel that Panti/Rory is a great public speaker and has done a lot for the marriage equality movement. Some of us are forgetting the fantastic speech Rory made at the last marriage equality rally where he was not in the character of Panti.
It would be fantastic to have more public speakers of this stature and im sure if anyone feels they could do this marriage equality would be more than happy to have you on board. You can contact them at marriageequality.ie
My Response
Peter I totally agree, Rory is a great speaker but it is causing so much confusion, is it Rory or Panti making the points In airing my views I am not saying that Rory or Panti is not a great orator but just reminding us who are we trying to get our message too.
From Joby Reid
he thing thats gets me is how many (gay?) people are basicly saying that unless we all pull toghther and get our words straight we wont be listened to or dont deserve to be listened to. This from our own community. Having studyed a bit of gay politics, it shows me we have not yet changed the view that we can not stand up unless we are told to do so. That attitude is sending us into the past and only means we have to fight all over again to gain the rights that some gays are eroding. I will never forget the protests i went on in the 80s, the basic rights we were demanding for the future gens. The fight for decrimilisation was a hard one and took years. It didnt come from sitting around making sure we had all our I's dotted and T's crossed, we got out there and fought. Something alot of people have yet to do.
Panti you could sit back and watch the cash roll into your tills and do nothing, but you dont, youve be more visable than some of the twitters and blogers, keep up the good work.
My Response
Joby
Let me be clear, my post was not a reflection of Panti or those that are contributing to forwarding our agenda for equal rights. It's about how the message is sent and how we want it to be received.
The 80's was almost 30 years ago and how people lobby for change has changed a great deal. Yes, marches are important but how the message is communicated is even more important, so dotting our I's and cross our T's is paramount if we want to send out a well constructed, co-ordinated, clear message. Furthermore, this message is much stronger coming from someone who relates to those with whom we are trying to engage with. I personally feel that a drag queen (Panti) doesn't, though Rory might.
Our fellow gays do us no justice when faced with opposing opinions by resorting to playground name calling. I'd also like to point out that there are members of our community who are not so prominent or in the public eye (all be it the gay public eye) that are doing excellent work at moving the agenda forward
Further responses to the blog
Michael
From Brian Murphy
rory IS rory during protest rallys etc. pride is different however its a celebration so he should be panti. drag is part of gay culture (a really good part, if u ask me), so we shouldnt deny it. if gays are to raise kids then the kids will be exposed to gay culture.....and wats wrong wit that?
From David Wilkins
I agree Michael, drag has been a part of popular culture (much less Gay culture) going back hundreds of years. Women weren't allowed act on stage in Shakespearean times so men played women's roles. For god sake Danny La Rue started his career in the British armed services during WWII!
My Response
Brian/David
I fail to see the relevance of your points to my blog. I totally agree that drag is a great form of art and I take my hat of to drag queens over the world, they've entertained me, friends and family for years. Where in my blog did I state that drag isn't part of gay or popular culture? I know pride is different than rallys - all I'm saying is that we need to bear in mind who we're trying to get our message too.
In my blog I'm stating that we should be more strategic about what we are trying to communicate, know who we are communitcating too and ensure that the people receiving the message can relate to the person delivering it.As we know that if the general public can relate to the person giving the message it will have a greater chance of changing their opinion.
As for gay kids being exposed to gay culture I had joint custody of my previous partners children for the best part of 4 years.They were totally exposed to gay culture and there wasn't anything wrong with it.
I agree on point, but Panti DOES rally the gay kids on all these issues yet it is Rory who show's up at all the protests an speaks.
It wasnt until Panti kicked up shit at the piss poor attendance of the Feb 14th protest that she became an unofficial spokes person for LGBT noise, throw in a MAKE AN DO for placards and we have a well attended protest in dublin.
Pride is ALWAYS where panti makes her big speech, kinda the irish gays version of the queens speech.
I dont think her points were any less valid JUST cause it was Rory O Neill in a dress.
Brenda has made Panti much more of a figurehead than she ever was, so we can't blame Panti for now being our spokesperson.
Steve
I totally concur with all that you have said.
Panti does rally the "kids" and yes the "kids" do need rallied. We also need to give those who disagree with us a figure with whom they can identify with and at least they might listen to our message. I personally think a man in a dress distracts from this.
At no point in my blog do I suggest that Panti's points are less valid, just perhaps, not heard by those we are trying to convince why marriage equality is an important right for us to have. I was there for Panti's speech and she does rally us fellow gays. We aren't the only ones that need rallied though.
All facets of the gay community have an important message to get across lets just be smart in how we go about i
I am a gay man soon to be married outside of the Irish Republic and I think it’s disgraceful that I have to do this. I am a big part of the gay community and I embrace all walks of life. To be represented by a person who spends their professional life as a drag queen immediately causes friction, this is not an ideal form of representation. I am not disagreeing with the issues but how they are presented to the masses should be a massive concern for every one of us who strive for the equality we deserve.
As much as the gay community cries out for understanding, those who are against equality need as much understanding as we do. For us to make them understand, the gay community should come together and elect a speaker that can cross that divide and appeal to all members of society. I mean come on, do you think America would have taken Obama seriously if he was dressed up in a clown costume.
and all this name calling on face book is not helping issues.
yours sincerely , gay person
"Panti you could sit back and watch the cash roll into your tills and do nothing, but you dont, youve be more visable than some of the twitters and blogers, keep up the good work."
but it seems to me panti has her eye on the prize, hence her appearance on the Maury Povich show in america, where Panti lies about her life and who she is just to get on TV.
give me a break folks
watch this and see if you want this person to represent you.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=87B421764F3856CD&search_query=maury+panti
Hi guys and gals
While I welcome debate on this blog I will not allow personal attacks on anyone - they will be deleted.
M
xx
Michael, you are missing the point and your argument is very much off course..firstly, as i think has been stated, Panti, on the day of pride didnt make a political speech apart from suggesting that we as a community, need to fight together to achieve our equality, instead of finger pointing and division, as was being experienced at the time, due to GLENs public welcoming of the partnership bill, Panti quite clearly stated upon taking the stage, that she wasnt going to be rabble rousing that day. The political rallying was done by the very wonderful, articulate and intelligent Grand Marshall of the Parade, Ailbhe Smith. Perhaps she is a more acceptable face of Gay for you? and yet she isnt mentioned in your blog. Rory has spoken at previous equality rallies, and he is respected and admired by a hugely diverse sector of our community at large, from teenagers to pensioners, and i cant think what the problem is with having him speak on our behalf, along with the many others that are also publicly vocal about our endeavours to right a civil injustice. On a final note, you say we shouldnt resort to name calling yet you begin your article with branding a self perceived Gay hierarchy within the community the "A-Gays"? which i think is basically name calling? And just as a matter of interest, who exactly are these A Gays of whom you speak?
Well Absurdlittlebird, Thanks for you comments. Like it or not Panti has become the public face of this fight to the general public following the articles in the Sunday Times. As I have stated previously Panti is great at rallying the gays but we need to be strategic and smart in delivering our message and who we want it delivered too. I have heard Rory speak at the various rally's and radio programmes etc and as I have stated before I feel he is a great speaker but then comes the confusion. Is it Panti or Rory on the radio and even when it is clearly Rory to us gays, the presenter always mentions his role of Panti. Do you think the general public find it easy to distinguish between the drag artist and the man?
What I'm trying to get across in my blog is that the message would be better received if it wasn't delivered by a person where there may be lack of understanding from wider society as to his gender, or as we know his job. To answer your question Alibhe Smith would perhaps be a better spokesperson or any other member of our community that doesn't cause confusion to those who have a lack of understanding of the gay community. I feel Panti / Rory only causes confusion. I can only imagine if it was constantly Rory delivering the message some journalist or commentator would get a picture of Panti and say that it is Rory. We need to be smart with the media – we aren’t doing it.
As for the "A gays" that is certainly not name calling - it is referring to a group of gays who have given themselves that name and have been quiet open about it. These are “older” members of the gay community, gays at which the young gay members look up too, all of which are in the late 20's right through to early 40's, you could imagine my surprise when it was those same people that used the terms gee bag, slut and whore. Leading by example they are not.
I have to say, from what ive gathered online, from friends, both gay and straight, and family, predominantly straight, Rory is recieved as an eloquent, calm, perceptive speaker, and what he does for a living, in whatever garb he chooses to adorn himself, is really irrelevant, and until either your good self, or someone with your mindset steps up to the bar and puts their money where their mouth is, I really dont see that you can have an argument about Rory representing the community. Calls for a meeting of the heads of the gay state to "elect" someone seem to me to be ever so slightly silly.
As for The "A gays" adopting that moniker, i can only imagine it was done tongue in cheek, but either way, these A gays, Panti in particular, have done enormous good with regards to visibility, safe space, activism and charity over the years, so whether they are A or nay gays is really neither here nor there.
Absurdlittbird, I really wish you had have taken the time to digest what I was trying to point out in my blog post. Like I've said numerous times before, I believe that Rory is a great orator and I'm glad your friends and family, especially the straight ones, think so too. It's not our friends and family that we're trying to get the message too, it's the rest of our society and in particular those who disagree with us that need to hear our message. I'm pretty sure all my friends, family and also, predominantly straight, support full marriage equality. These are not the people whose opinions we need to change. My argument is about breaking down as many barriers as possible in order to reach those that don't feel we deserve equality. I don't get your point about regarding an election; this is something that I've never mentioned. I believe it would be unmanageable and totally uncalled for. As for me putting my money where my mouth is; there are many people better qualified to speak on this subject than me, however if I felt it was needed off course I'd step up to the plate. I used my blog to offer my opinion on the subject matter and to cause a debate. I recognise the hard work that many factions of our community have engaged in over the years. Hats off to them and they should be congratulated for it, however when they choose to respond to an argument by calling someone a gee-bag, slut and whore, I kinda lose my respect for them.
Michael, I did take the time, and ive pondered it for some time, its just that I dont agree with your opinion in the matter. I can see what you are saying, but i feel that there is a little whiff of the age old self loathing homosexual about it,( im sorry if that comes off as bitchy, it is not my intention to insult or criticise, its just that I have met numerous gay men over the years who have a "thing" about Drag which stems from personal issues regarding sexuality, and the essense of this blog really brought that to mind) I have read your repeated postings about your opinion that Rory is a good orator, but that you think his alter ego clouds the general, moral majority publics taking on board what it is he is saying, But I dont think that is really relevant to the issue at hand, because as you yourself said, Rory is one of many people working towards equality, and altho you may feel he doesnt represent you as an individual, there are many many people who are happy to hear him speak on their behalf.. but I digress... In my humble opinion, I feel that the entire argument is flawed because Rory has not set out to be a spokeperson for our cause, he was singled out by one blatantly homophobic journalist, and had the honour thrust upon him..aside from that..
with regards to the "A gays" using the derogatory terms listed above, all I can say is, altho it isnt exactly articulated well, i think what they said was probably what a vast majority of the community was thinking, and sometimes anger makes you say things you might regret later, but to say you've lost respect for them..i think that is a bit OTT.. When you feel helpless about a situation that you believe is unjust or aggressive towards you, it is a natural instinct to lash out, its not always the right thing to do, least of all on a public forum, but it is human instnct to defend oneself against attack.
Absurdlittlebird, I can assure you there is no self loathing on my part and I don't have any issues regarding drag stemming from my sexuality. Like I've said before I embrace the Drag art and am grateful for the years of entertaining it's provided to me, my friends and family. I'm not going to go on about it but Rory / Panti is good at rallying the community however if we want our message carried further and listened to by ears other than that of our friends and family then we need to think about this more strategically. That’s it plain and simple. As for me losing respect for those who called Brenda all the aforementioned derogatory terms I don't think it's OTT. I think from a community that commands respect, tolerance and acceptance then we should lead by example. Thanks for contributing to the discussion; it's been great to hear your views on this.
It's great you have aired such a strong opinion, when the gay community are so quick to condemn members that go against the grain. You're brave to say the least. I don't necessarily agree with all your points, but I agree with a considerable number of them.
I don't know whether I agree with the whole Rory v.s Panti debate. The fact of the matter is that Panti is in a better position to rally the troops whereas Rory may not. I attended the Pride rally and I saw the reaction of the crowds to Panti's speech. Panti got the crowd going. The one thing that bothers me about the push for gay marriage - and the gay scene who tend to follow one another like sheep - is how informed our arguments are. I'm sure Panti and other ring leaders know their facts, but there is great doubt as to whether the eighteen year old who was swigging vodka, from a plastic bottle, in the park the day of Pride really knew his facts.
I did some research on the concepts of gay marriage, civil partnership and civil union. Each sovereign state can call gay union what it likes and attach a varying spectrum of rights to it. Do you think the vodka swilling teenager at Pride had two notions of any of this?
The sensationalist Pan Piper attitude of LGBT noise really irks me. The first demonstration at which Tony Walsh spoke was cringe worthy. Luckily, Noise seem to have their act together since then with their "Inequality Red Card" campaign.
Like you, I would like to see well informed, educated and out spoken members of the gay community as front men for the campaign for gay marriage. Panti/Rory should also be among this group.These front men should be well informed on matters such as law and human rights. There should be no Catholic Church bashing or slurring of politician's names.
I will be at the rally this weekend and would urge anyone else who has an opinion on the matter to do the same.
MyopicPsychotic, thanks for contributing to the discussion on this. It's refreshing to know that others feel similar to myself even if they don't agree entirely.
I really feel the gay community don't welcome debate and anyone who steps out of line becomes a hate figure.
I personally don't think my blog post was brave. I do feel it was vital to open up the discussion.
At the end of the day, it is only my opinion. I think all our opinions are important, we live in a democracy, right?
I'll be there Sunday too, I just won't be wearing my bells, for fear of being tied to the cross from the Madonna Like a Prayer video. Oh hang on a minute I'm making myself out to be Jesus when maybe I was Judas......anyhow I'm rambling now. I'll be there Sunday.
Why Me, be sure to take note of the many friends and gay men you know that won't be in attendance at the rally on Sunday. This is what kills me the most.
I agree that we should all have an opinion, but perhaps our comments should be constructive. Panti did have a point when she said "together we stand, divided we fall". One unified voice is much louder at the end of the day.
Sounds like we're singing from the same hymn sheet. I'd be ecstatic if Marriage Equality and LGBT Noise merged. Joint resources, one voice, same outcome would be ideal but we don't live in an ideal world.
Fingers crossed hangovers aren't too bad on Sunday and there'll be a great crowd.
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